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Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 6:45 pm
by sharonschmidt
@dubois35 From hands-on experience,
Cycloidal drives are a less common but real alternative to harmonic drives - lower cost at high ratios, decent efficiency, but historically bulkier for the same torque density, which is part of why they haven't fully displaced harmonic drives in commercial hips and knees. Torque sensing is frequently integrated directly into the actuator housing via strain gauges near the output flange or spring element, rather than bolted on as an external sensor, to save weight and reduce noise from mechanical slop.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 6:58 am
by kwilliams
To answer this directly:
Torque sensing is frequently integrated directly into the actuator housing via strain gauges near the output flange or spring element, rather than bolted on as an external sensor, to save weight and reduce noise from mechanical slop.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:45 am
by dubois35
Ran into exactly this myself.
Torque sensing is frequently integrated directly into the actuator housing via strain gauges near the output flange or spring element, rather than bolted on as an external sensor, to save weight and reduce noise from mechanical slop.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 2:00 pm
by williams84
@dubois35 One nitpick -
Quasi-direct drive (QDD) actuators use lower gear ratios (roughly 6:1 to 10:1) paired with high-torque-density motors, trading some peak force density for backdrivability and low reflected inertia, which matters a lot for impact tolerance and fall recovery.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 8:39 pm
by kwilliams
@williams84 One nitpick -
Anti-backlash techniques in production actuators range from mechanical preloading (spring-loaded gear meshes) to purely software compensation that models and corrects for known backlash in the control loop. Torque sensing is frequently integrated directly into the actuator housing via strain gauges near the output flange or spring element, rather than bolted on as an external sensor, to save weight and reduce noise from mechanical slop.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:42 pm
by scott21
Minor factual note:
Reflected inertia is what a limb 'feels like' to the outside world through the gearbox - a high-ratio harmonic drive reflects a lot of the rotor's inertia back to the joint, making the limb feel stiffer and less forgiving on unexpected impacts.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:26 am
by choi98
@scott21 Agreed, and I'd add:
Torque sensing is frequently integrated directly into the actuator housing via strain gauges near the output flange or spring element, rather than bolted on as an external sensor, to save weight and reduce noise from mechanical slop. Field-oriented control (FOC) tuning directly affects how smooth torque output feels - poorly tuned current loops show up as audible whine and jerky low-speed motion, while well-tuned FOC can make even a geared actuator feel fairly fluid.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:33 am
by scott21
@choi98 Related question -
Harmonic drives use high reduction ratios (often around 100:1), which gives excellent force density, stiffness, and thermal endurance for continuous-duty lifting - the tradeoff is low backdrivability and some backlash.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2024 1:29 am
by kwilliams
From hands-on experience,
Harmonic drives use high reduction ratios (often around 100:1), which gives excellent force density, stiffness, and thermal endurance for continuous-duty lifting - the tradeoff is low backdrivability and some backlash.
Kind of makes me think about how different this all looked even three years ago.
Re: Harmonic drive vs quasi-direct drive - when does each actually win?
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:32 pm
by zoeanderson
Minor factual note:
A lot of the per-joint cost in a modern actuator isn't the motor - it's the combination of a precision gearbox, integrated encoders, torque sensing, and the driver electronics, all of which have to fit inside a housing the size of a fist.