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Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:22 am
by scott21
Follow-up question though - Bimanual manipulation - two arms coordinating on one task - is harder than it looks mostly because of the added degrees of freedom and the timing/force coordination required; a lot of 'two-handed' demos are actually closer to two independent single-hand tasks done in sequence. Imitation learning from human demonstration video (without robot teleoperation data) is an appealing way to scale up training data cheaply, but it runs into the embodiment gap - human hand kinematics and force profiles don't map directly onto a robot hand's very different mechanism.

Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 2:51 am
by choi98
Counterpoint: Underactuated hands (fewer actuators than joints, using mechanical coupling to shape the grasp) are a reasonable engineering compromise for robust power grasps on a budget, but they generally can't do fine in-hand manipulation the way a fully actuated hand can.

Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:55 pm
by chloe_jack
This raises a question for me - Wet, oily, or otherwise low-friction objects are still a genuine edge case for most current hands, since tactile sensing and grasp-force controllers are typically tuned and validated on dry, higher-friction test objects. Figure's fourth-generation Dexterous Hand (on Figure 02/03) reportedly offers 16 degrees of freedom per hand with sensors integrated into each finger, aimed at fine force control tasks like handling small electronic components without crushing them.

Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:55 pm
by scott.andersson5
@chloe_jack This matches what I've seen too. Vision-based grasp confidence estimation (predicting success before attempting a grasp) and tactile-based confirmation (confirming after contact) are complementary rather than competing - vision helps you choose a grasp, tactile tells you if it actually worked.

Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2024 6:24 pm
by servoken70
@scott.andersson5 Same conclusion I've come to. Also worth noting: Tendon-driven fingers let you move the heavier actuators back into the palm or forearm, keeping the fingers themselves light and fast, but they introduce cable routing, tensioning, and long-term wear problems that direct-actuated fingers don't have.

Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 3:10 pm
by olga_lind
This matches what I've seen too. Figure's fourth-generation Dexterous Hand (on Figure 02/03) reportedly offers 16 degrees of freedom per hand with sensors integrated into each finger, aimed at fine force control tasks like handling small electronic components without crushing them.

Re: 16 DoF hands vs simpler 3-finger grippers - is the complexity worth it yet?

Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2025 6:04 pm
by choi98
Genuinely curious - Payload-to-hand-weight ratio varies a lot across current dexterous hands, and it's a meaningful tradeoff - more DoF and finer sensing generally means more actuators and mass in the hand itself, which eats into the arm's usable payload budget.