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Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 2:41 pm
by benjaminsanchez
Not sure if this has been discussed before, but here goes. Backdrivability is the property that lets an external force move a joint without destroying the gearbox or the motor - it's central to both safe human-robot contact and to letting a leg comply naturally when the robot stumbles. Torque sensing is frequently integrated directly into the actuator housing via strain gauges near the output flange or spring element, rather than bolted on as an external sensor, to save weight and reduce noise from mechanical slop. Genuinely not sure where I land on this, so discuss.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 4:38 pm
by ethan17
@benjaminsanchez Not to derail, but this reminds me of something adjacent: A lot of the per-joint cost in a modern actuator isn't the motor - it's the combination of a precision gearbox, integrated encoders, torque sensing, and the driver electronics, all of which have to fit inside a housing the size of a fist. Series elastic actuators add a spring element in series with the drivetrain, which gives cheap, precise torque sensing (measure spring deflection) and passive shock absorption, at the cost of reduced control bandwidth and added complexity.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 7:59 pm
by rivera14
@ethan17 Speaking from personal experience here, Field-oriented control (FOC) tuning directly affects how smooth torque output feels - poorly tuned current loops show up as audible whine and jerky low-speed motion, while well-tuned FOC can make even a geared actuator feel fairly fluid.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Sat May 09, 2026 8:43 pm
by carter42
@rivera14 Short answer: Harmonic drives use high reduction ratios (often around 100:1), which gives excellent force density, stiffness, and thermal endurance for continuous-duty lifting - the tradeoff is low backdrivability and some backlash.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Sun May 10, 2026 2:13 am
by charlesbianchi
To answer this directly: Anti-backlash techniques in production actuators range from mechanical preloading (spring-loaded gear meshes) to purely software compensation that models and corrects for known backlash in the control loop. Reminds me a bit of the early drone hobbyist scene, honestly.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Tue May 12, 2026 5:01 am
by scott21
@charlesbianchi +1 to this. Worth adding: Motor cogging torque (the 'notchy' feel from magnet-to-slot interactions) shows up as small periodic torque ripple that can translate into visible joint jitter at low speeds - it's usually mitigated with skewed magnets, better current control, or software compensation tables.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Wed May 13, 2026 12:34 pm
by thomasmitchell
Small correction on one detail: Boston Dynamics' commercial electric Atlas switched fully from hydraulic to QDD-style electric actuation, ending up quieter and lighter with comparable or better dynamic performance than the old hydraulic platform.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Thu May 14, 2026 7:32 pm
by karen.chen3
@thomasmitchell I dealt with almost this exact situation. Cycloidal drives are a less common but real alternative to harmonic drives - lower cost at high ratios, decent efficiency, but historically bulkier for the same torque density, which is part of why they haven't fully displaced harmonic drives in commercial hips and knees. Makes me wonder how this looks in another five years.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Sat May 16, 2026 1:48 am
by betty.king
Still learning the space, so correct me if wrong - Reflected inertia is what a limb 'feels like' to the outside world through the gearbox - a high-ratio harmonic drive reflects a lot of the rotor's inertia back to the joint, making the limb feel stiffer and less forgiving on unexpected impacts.

Re: Coreless vs iron-core motors for lightweight joints

Posted: Mon May 18, 2026 6:09 am
by samuel.adams
@betty.king This raises a question for me - Quasi-direct drive (QDD) actuators use lower gear ratios (roughly 6:1 to 10:1) paired with high-torque-density motors, trading some peak force density for backdrivability and low reflected inertia, which matters a lot for impact tolerance and fall recovery.